“Before, you asserted that an organ undergoing this process would become somehow “zombiefied” or a “shell of itself”. <- I stated this about a human body, not organs.”

The human body is just a collection of organs and tissues. The brain is an organ. Your statement was and remains absurd.

“I'm not an idiot, I know you can freeze organs for transplants. I'd appreciate if you don't be disingenuous. I was discussing the concept of reviving the brain specifically, and the idea that if you bring someone's brain back to a living state, they will simply be "themselves" again, which I highly doubt.”

If you can do it to a kidney, why not a brain? They have the same basic metabolic needs. In fact, the brain, kidney, and liver are the three organs MOST conducive to cryoprotectant solutions. This is pretty clearly the direction the technology is heading. It doesn’t matter how long it takes as long as you stay cold. It really wouldn’t hurt you to read this https://waitbutwhy.com/2016/03/cryonics.html

“"This test is relevant because it proves that cryopreservation preserves memory." <- again, in a specific species of roundworm, which have an entirely different brain structure than a mammalian brain structure, which is why you don't typically test in something so far removed from human beings. Once they can replicate memory in smth mammalian I'll be impressed.”

Before they did the roundworm, skeptical cryobiologists were saying things like “they haven’t shown they can preserve memory! When they do that, THEN I’ll be impressed.” The thing is, you can move the goal posts forever. A cryonics critic in the 80s would be talking about ice crystals. A critic in the 90s would be talking about B2C toxicity. A critic in the 2000s would be talking about dehydration, and today’s critic (you) focus on fracturing. Every decade the critics have to keep moving the goal posts, because cryonics technology keeps improving and debunking their faulty assumptions about it.

“"The technology will only improve!" <- you're a socialist arguing that an extremely dubious branch of what is viewed by the larger scientific community as pseudoscience will continue to improve.”

Most scientists have no opinion of cryonics, and the ones who have looked into it are divided in half. Read “Cold War: The Conflict between Cryonicists and Cryobiologists” for more context. There is a reason it is marginalized, the science was intentionally suppressed for 25 years by the society for cryobiology because of social stigma and fear of association. Only in the past 10 years have they finally started routinely publishing cryonics research.

“However, it will only do this at the behest of the rich needing it to be improved at their unwillingness to die.”

Blatantly, pants on fire false. Alcor does receive donations from the rich, like any medical research institution. It’s good that the money is being put towards potentially life saving research instead of another accessory luxury boat for your luxury boat. But their core funding and long term sustainability comes from their members and patients, most of whom are not wealthy. I work at a supermarket.

“I'm assuming that, as a socialist, you don't want the rich to hoard wealth. If the rich cannot hoard their wealth, who is going to be funding this?”

Alcor members.
“I can assure you that scientists as a whole will not be behind this pursuit, because.......uh, they're very much not, currently.”

Just because it hasn’t taken off yet doesn’t mean it won’t. It’s sustainable for those that choose it and many scientists respect their rights: http://www.imminst.org/cryonics_letter/

“None of this evidence has been seen as persuasive by the general medical community.”

Not true at all. Generally, either the general medical community hasn’t seen and considered the evidence, or they are actively putting it into practice in cutting edge trauma care. The principles of cryonics are put into practice in operating rooms every day, just not as long, and not as cold.

“This is a PALTRY amount of research compared to what most medical topics get. The amount of researchers and scientists working on this topic is bare-bones.”

Do you think we are happy about that? I support more cryonics research, which is why I financially contributed to the RAPID project among other things.

“You say you're utilitarian, but you're heaping loads of hope into an endless cost-sink of a project supported by an incredibly small handful of people.”

It’s not a cost sink. Alcor’s wealth is growing year over year. Members contribute enough through their insurance policies to ensure their indefinite storage. Death is a cost sink. Every 50 years we lose an entire generation of human wisdom and experience. There is no economic argument in favor of that if it can be prevented.

““Once you pull the plug, so to speak, on what makes billionaires rich, what do you think will motivate this research to continue when most scientists view it as a critical failure and quackery?”

Life extension technology and transhumanism in general are at their baby stages. This movement is just getting started and it isn’t going anywhere.

“As a socialist, where do you envision the money coming from? That's one of the really interesting parts from me. You have a constant insistence that the technology will improve, but if things go the way you want them to, HOW?”

The money will come from Alcor members. A significant part of what you pay is put aside for research, revival, and re-integration into society. The money available to them will appreciate substantially over the centuries.

“If we end capitalism, WHY would society bother to invest in research on something that the HUGE majority of the scientific community sees as absolutely useless?”

Saving the lives of billions of people is literally the least useless thing I can imagine. It is perhaps the most important idea of this century.

“Like, do you even REALIZE what a small grain of sand this is? Their selected journals page is only 19 articles, and out of those 19 you see the same names multiple times when it comes to authors.”

The Alcor website is not the sole source of cryonics research. Search pubmed. There are literally hundreds of papers.

“If you look into the wider library, you see the same names again and again and AGAIN. The world of cryonics, compared to the rest of medical science, is a SMALL world.”

AND? That doesn’t debunk the research. Theoretical physics was once a “small world”. So was calculus. So was string theory.

“You can provide all the arguments you want for how long they've stayed open, but they're thought of by the rest of the medical world as a joke, so without funding from the rich people they're getting funding from, how exactly is the technology meant to advance?”

They’re not thought of by “the rest of the medical community as a joke”, they have formed relationships with dozens of hospitals, funeral homes, and medical examiners offices that enabled a substantial improvement in the quality of cryopreservation over time. I live within 15 miles to a hospital that has handled an Alcor case, and if I can’t make it to Scottsdale, you bet that’s where I’m headed. The medical community is increasingly showing an interest in what cryonicists are doing. In case reports, you will often read about dozens of medical staff lining up to see what’s going on and ask questions. Cryonicists also have supportive physicians and caretakers.

“"I think it would be a great source of comfort upon waking up. Currently not legal in arizona, though. When most people are buried, they aren’t fertilizer for anything useful like food or trees (as we use animals)… Mostly just bugs and bacteria." <- Bugs and bacteria ARE useful! They're two of the most useful things in our ecosystem, are you kidding?? Bacteria are essentially the baseline of how our entire planet functions, with bugs being the second line of defense. Feeding bugs and bacteria is very good! Being fertilizer for food and trees is great, yeah, but feeding bugs and bacteria is also great! Those two things keep everything on the planet alive, what are you saying?!”

I’m not saying bacteria and bugs are useless, but have you BEEN to a cemetery? It’s basically a front lawn with a bunch of stones. Grass is not exactly the most helpful thing to be feeding and taking care of, lawns are actually quite ecologically destructive. Human composing being legal would enable our bodies to be put to much better use.